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Coda Grimoire Occupy Love 6	Posted - 2012.03.31 15:09:00 - [1] - Quote Tomnio wrote: I ... maybe he decides that after all the harassment that has rained down from his actions that maybe internet spaceships isn't worth it.
Coda Grimoire Occupy Love 6	Posted - 2012.03.31 15:15:00 - [2] - Quote oops I did it too Look There were two incredible public learning moments. First, we watched the alliance presentation where we saw a player beg and beg to be left alone. Then after the presentation, speaker went on to call for players to finish this guy off in RL by continuing to grief him in game. That is the conversation you need to have. What is griefing? Why are you doing it? Do you see how this affects your RL behavior now? We watched on film how ingame behavior leaks out into RL. FREE him? He's in RL as tho that is a prison and he is being kept from his REAL life in EVE? The lines are really blurry. That you should consider. And, do I need to point out that you all feel a little bit of what you have been handing out? And now you going to just step it up? What is this? EVE jihad? Take the 30 days and reflect...that is what the 30 ban is for. I suggest a course correction, but I don't expect it. Good luck with this convo
Coda Grimoire Occupy Love 6	Posted - 2012.03.31 18:52:00 - [3] - Quote Thanks for keeping the communication open. "It's only a game, loser!" is something not just us losers may have trouble with. Mittens started his apology by saying 'that is not me.' But it was. Everyone in EVE could have done something just as stupid. First, let's just face that we have proven to the world that gaming can and does cross the barrier into RL, both positive and negative. If you have a negative long range goal of tanking EVE or every player in it, these events are fairly predictable, so buckle up. Second, you are known for the most hardcore **** blah blah blah and links. In my opinion, that can help to dehumanize the people in the pictures and then other players flying around you that you see as "them". So, can we drift without realizing it and then stand up and gank ourselves in RL? Seems so. The obvious point is uh...obvious. Golden Rule...treating people the way you want to be treated. I think you simply got unbalanced and the predictable thing happened. My suggestion? BALANCE and perhaps don't play the game when you are not actually playing the game? Just trying to get my bearings here, as all of you are.
Coda Grimoire Occupy Love 6	Posted - 2012.04.01 00:30:00 - [4] - Quote Joepopo wrote: Coda Grimoire wrote: My suggestion? BALANCE and perhaps don't play the game when you are not actually playing the game? ...But some people clearly used that to get him out of the CSM and I feel it was somewhat wrong. Just to thread this needle... you have relished in making enemies and now you bent outta shape cuz your leader handed axe to the rest of the community? "Somewhat wrong?" for your enemies to react? puleeeeeze that's just too cute for words. Okay, I dun. ROCK ON!!!!!!!
Coda Grimoire Occupy Love 7	Posted - 2012.04.01 16:46:00 - [5] - Quote I don't go to null sec because that is how I see the sandbox of Eve to be, and why the hell would I want somebody who cant even hold his drink tell me what to do and how to play and enjoy. Mittens must be a democrat.[/quote] I bet he doesn't care who you marry or who you have sex with. That's a republican obsession. disclaimer: I did not just bite on this bait. I didn't respond. This is just what I would have said if I did.
Coda Grimoire Occupy Love 7	Posted - 2012.04.02 02:38:00 - [6] - Quote [quote=Sephiroth CloneIIV][quote=Coda Grimoire]oops I did it to Loo There were two incredible public learning moments. First, we watched the alliance presentation where we saw a player beg and beg to be left alone. Then after the presentation, speaker went on to call for players to finish this guy off in RL by continuing to grief him in game That is the conversation you need to have What is griefing? Why are you doing it? Do you see how this affects your RL behavior now We watched on film how ingame behavior leaks out into RL. FREE him? He's in RL as tho that is a prison and he is being kept from his REAL life in EVE The lines are really blurry. That you should consider And, do I need to point out that you all feel a little bit of what you have been handing out? And now you going to just step it up What is this? EVE jihad? Take the 30 days and reflect...that is what the 30 ban is for. I suggest a course correction, but I don't expect it. Good luck with this convo[/quote what is greifing This is a game about blowing up spaceships. Give it, its a bad joke to make about trolling a flunky though suicide (that broke the line, where as other people causing mayham limited mainly to the game) Are people who blow up capitals and jump freighters and capitals going to stop because someones feelings will get hurt.[/quote I have said before Historically, games have been the place to teach teamwork, respect, honor, sportsmanship, etc. Games demanded you leave your griefer stuff off the playing field. Thousands of years Now video games have turned that around. 'We know how to be civilized. Screw that. Let's get funky. The problem is that being a great person in RL and a savage sadist in the game clearly can get you a big wakeup call on film in public. *shudder I get that honor and stuff are not your thing. What is puzzling is the hostility toward people who are still using the sportsmanship they learned as kids and growing up. We still expect our professional teams to be honorable To the point: killing unarmed ships is not only morally offensive to some players, but in my opinion this is the last stop in leaving honor behind. This level of sadism was the stage for the tragedy of calling for a suicide in real life, using the game to send him there Everyone knows what griefing is and everyone knows where the line is between competitive fighting and personal attacks I saw a Goon suggest that the ice-field exploitation was a mistake. I agree. (I notice killing barges is up a bit today .)
Coda Grimoire Occupy Love 7	Posted - 2012.04.02 02:53:00 - [7] - Quote sorry that post was technical fail P.S. There are plenty of miners who are sick in bed, dying, with blood pressure problems, emotional problems...all who love the game and feel they are part of the community and contributing by their mining.
Coda Grimoire Occupy Love 7	Posted - 2012.04.02 03:30:00 - [8] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: Coda Grimoire wrote: To the point: killing unarmed ships is not only morally offensive to some players, but in my opinion this is the last stop in leaving honor behind. Ohh, ~e-honoure~ you don't have to choose honor, I'm just amazed by the hatred of it. Too hard? LOL
Coda Grimoire Occupy Love 8	Posted - 2012.04.02 14:02:00 - [9] - Quote Mallak Azaria wrote: Gloomy Gus wrote: He seemed popular enough at the polls With out Mittens at the helm of CSM, EVE will become a boring carebear haven. I shudder to think of what will happen this year. AHA!! Here we are people. We have arrived. carebear, the not-so-new N-word. You bored, bro? Is it your gameplay that is boring you? Oh no, it must be my fault. I took the EVE personality test and scored PVE Extraordinaire. Hmmm, let's see. My 1942 Webster's dictionary defines sadism as a secksual prevershun. Not surprised that you fear being bored. : ) I'm okay with being called a carebear. I'm not bored either. heh. Nothing personal to you, but you did drop the carebear word. We are just as bad. Some of us call you a**holes. \o/ EVE: One World, One War!
Coda Grimoire Occupy Love 12	Posted - 2012.04.03 23:35:00 - [10] - Quote Thank you for hearing This gets tricky, doesn't it Suicide ganking mining barges is allowed. I'm guessing that was not expected. I'm guessing the personal/emotional attacks were never expected to reach the moment they did at the fanfest presentation So there is the issue of personal harassment and sadistic behavior. I'm not in any position to act on that What I am doing is crying out, and standing up for the player who is on some kind of medical equipment, or half blind, or epileptic, or you name it I would ask you to consider where such amazing, but limping members of our community can comfortably play in EVE Goons say "nowhere". But the truth is that many miners do everything in the game and when it is time to pew pew pew, they get their crap together and go kill something. Maybe they can't get it together every day. Maybe no pvp at all It would be great if nothing but a barge could even get into an ice field (hello, whoever has sovereignty over an ice field). That would be akin to keeping kids from bringing guns to school. But I'm not asking for that I'm not really asking for anything. Who could ever have wished or planned or hoped for what happened? It's incredibly painful You have been handed this moment to yourselves from yourselves. What I hope is that goon leadership have a discussion about how they affect the gaming and personal lives of their members. We know what it did to mittens If people want and need leaders in this game, what do they get in return? They are following the example you set What is your goal? Some say it is to destroy the game. glw Eve is not advertised as a "SUPER SADO/MASOCHISTIC TERRORIST SPACE GAME FOR TEENS If you have a goal that requires fighting, then fight. What kind of goal is "licking your tears?" Why do that to people who are already ill and crying and maybe hanging on; and enjoy mining so they can have some social experience? You have dehumanized players. In doing so, you have dehumanized yourselves before all of EVE But hey! You get to. \o/ Thank you for letting me try to help. I hope I can.
Coda Grimoire Occupy Love 12	Posted - 2012.04.04 16:46:00 - [11] - Quote Psychological warfare? Okay, you wish to be feared and hated. Okay. Fine with me. The question is this: why did your leader get so lulled by the lulz of griefing that he called for using your ingame psychological warfare to get this guy to off himself in real life? That is is the issue. That is the question: do ingame leaders have any responsibility for the human mental hygiene of their members? Are your members cannon fodder? Didn't this psychological warfare cut down your leader? Are you committing psychological warfare on yourselves? And nice try. Sadism is sadism. That is the tool you choose to call psychological warfare. Fine with me. How's that working out for you? I'm raising the question. I don't have the answer...well unless you think the Golden Rule is viable. Some of us do. "EVE: Our Dress Rehearsal for the Future, Should Humanity Survive." I'm quoting myself.
Coda Grimoire Occupy Love 12	Posted - 2012.04.04 19:52:00 - [12] - Quote my dictionary says sadism is taking joy in causing someone else to suffer. You went for the sexual arousal, I didn't. Apparently there are various degrees. lol You say you are using this tactic to gain fear and hatred in the game. You say under the guise of psychological warfare you are using griefing, or "licking tears" but that is not who you really are? I'll bite. Who are you really?
Coda Grimoire Occupy Love 12	Posted - 2012.04.04 21:00:00 - [13] - Quote Good answer...thanks You are correct about one thing...this is an internal goon affair going forward. My gut feeling is that there noone is doing any happy dance (well not for more than a nanosecond) over what happened. Game play and real life do mix, are we still riding the hobby horse that says it doesn't? All hearts are going out . You may not realize it, but all of the community is solidly behind goons in your intent to enjoy the game. Any one of us could have done this. I believe that. Thank you all for letting me try to nudge the issue of tactics. I accept that the old rules of sportsmanship are not gone, but not present. I want this to be a win-win. And off I go, like a herd of turtles. This was my first real visit to the forums. I am encouraged!! Byeeeee!!
Coda Grimoire Occupy Love 12	Posted - 2012.04.05 17:58:00 - [14] - Quote P.S. I saw this remark and I did some real digging around and self reflection. "What saddens me is the fact that you,in opposite to average cfc member,and our leaders clearly cant tell the difference between game and real life" This is psychological warfare, the griefing is griefing. There is no line. There is real life and you are bringing yourself to whatever you are paying attention to. The opinion is that there is no real life and game life, just life. Your plea that there is a difference and gaming is somehow some secret no-holds-barred magic kingdom is a lie. Maybe you can get away with stuff in a game you can't get away with in RL...oh wait...we just sat that happen. You are pleading a false construct. Okay, ta ta and thank you for prompting me to settle the issue for myself. ROCK ON!!!
Coda Grimoire Occupy Love 12	Posted - 2012.04.05 21:03:00 - [15] - Quote : ) thanks. I just finally realized that this false construct of game vs real life is truly your psychological warfare, player on player and metagaming CCP. Hell the whole world has bought this idea of two different worlds... I'M FREE!!! I bought this for some five years in EVE. I have to give you credit for brainwashing your members and a bunch of EVE itself. I'm FREE!!!!
Coda Grimoire Occupy Love 12	Posted - 2012.04.06 00:27:00 - [16] - Quote Brace yourself, dood. Ready? EVE is real. ooOOooOOoo Prague \o/ How nice that Frank Zappa inspired the downfall of 40 years of Communist rule in your country. Hmmmm...could there be the same kind of wakeup call in EVE as there was in Prague in the velvet revolution? Screw the Cult of Eternal Suffering!! EVE is real! Come out into the sun! Let's dance!! Every game is real and real people play them...really. [url] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRNleKBDCNw[/url]
Coda Grimoire Occupy Love 12	Posted - 2012.04.06 23:20:00 - [17] - Quote I'm Luav's alt
Coda Grimoire Occupy Love 13	Posted - 2012.04.10 14:18:00 - [18] - Quote I've been thinking about this until the dust has settled in my head (call me whatever you want) and this event has changed me. For five years I have bought the "this is just a game" stuff; not willingly and certainly not enough to grief anyone. But the truth is that cyberbullying is cyberbullying. If you choose to do it in a game, you are REALLY still doing it, and the effect is still REAL on your victims. And surprisingly, you REALLY feel good about doing it. What strikes me is the overlap between the griefing and what my friends and I jokingly say is the message of dictators generally: "Don't have too much fun!!! Don't get too happy!! We will make you pay!!" Maybe you don't think of real human beings when you are griefing. Maybe you just feel the need to put a dent in someone's enjoyment. Is that it? Are you hating happiness? You just can't stand to see anyone having fun in an unarmed ship? You just can't stand to see people who don't suffer like you do actually having fun? I accept that CCP says cyberbullying in EVE is okay. That is their decision, but consider this: Some 3,000 peeps got on mumble in goonswarm. 3.000. wow. There is an entire universe out there to settle and develop and these 3,000 are dreaming of destroying the game? Why make the game suckier than everyday stresses? You just hate love and happiness? Maybe you don't think it exists? Maybe you don't think that is fun? Screw the cult of eternal suffering. I hope you are learning something.
Coda Grimoire Occupy Love 13	Posted - 2012.04.21 15:54:00 - [19] - Quote Now you're just being silly. Despite having our own dictator (right? I heard someone say that on EVE-O a very reliable source of information) he definitely likes us to be happy The human issue here is not silly, even if I am The issue is sadistic behavior in a video game. If you've been on the receiving end you quickly realize that it has nothing to do with the game at all. This is a cult of cruelty (muwahahaha, kill yourself, loser) that is sitting in a game meant for simulating the development of space in a capitalist based competitive economy. We have "opponents" in the game. We fight We can argue about the definition, but everyone knows griefing is and where the line is No one thinks game designers built this game for sado/masochism, but here you are! Guess you have to be somewhere. Better you in game than doing this stuff out of the game. oh, wait..... So, silly me. These encounters are "happy" for you and miserable for the other guy, is that what you mean: he wants us to be happy? That's the issue. I don't think anyone really calls this stuff "gameplay". Feeding on another's emotions with an appetite for cruelty is usually the domain of "two consenting adults" In the game, it is really a personal assault against another human being that is illegal and disqualifying in games historically. Most of us got straightened out on that issue by about...oh...say...three years old. I actually remember my dad biting me after I bit my brother. It was the wake up call of my life. "How do you like that?" he asked. I didn't. I haven't bitten anyone since. Maybe you just need to be on the receiving end to really know what you are doing? Dunno. Mittani is trying to act like a griefed victim for no reason. How ironic. Why not have griefing tourneys among griefers, let the rest of us play the game we are paying to play. Surely you can find some way to have fun without torturing the unsuspecting....uh....maybe not.
Coda Grimoire Occupy Love 13	Posted - 2012.05.01 13:23:00 - [20] - Quote Maybe you should spend some more time dwelling on the difference between reality and fantasy. I don't think you have that concept quite worked out yet. hmmmm the difference between reality and fantasy is a "concept"? Good for you. That's a start. What comes after a concept, an idea? Then, maybe some experimental stuff; analysis, judgement, process of elimination -- that sort of stuff -- I guess we call that learning. And boom! You get a glimpse of uh...oh yea, reality. But you do have to come out of a total fantasy world to taste it. Just my experience. Congrats on reaching the concept stage. No need to insult anyone about it. We all get there sooner or later. (this post brought to you by unexpected game shutdown)
Coda Grimoire Occupy Love 13	Posted - 2012.05.03 14:56:00 - [21] - Quote "Pubbies are mad because they want actual blood and didn't get it." This is cyberbullying. This has nothing to do with EVE or any game. You are wasting your love, your time and shaping your future emotional health in a way you will replay over and over in your old age. To be honest, I feel sorry for you stuck in this infinite loop of sadistic linguistics. You can keep your blood. I wish you peace and love. Everyone I have ever spoken to wants that for their life.
Coda Grimoire Occupy Love 21	Posted - 2012.05.12 09:08:00 - [22] - Quote Gloomy Gus wrote: Coda, Jade, can I get you ladies' thoughts on this? Let's take the sandbox issue. When kids get in a sandbox, bullying is not allowed even though the kids are just "playing" . When I joined EVE I was pretty good at mixed-company hilarity and language. (I counted 17 women during all the fanfest coverage I watched.) I learned quickly that EVE is not a mixed company affair. Since I loved the game, I had little trouble dodging hard core **** or sadism. It seemed easy enough to hang with players who were just playing the game to have some fun. The idea of calling this stuff sandbox behavior is a corruption of what sandbox play is meant to be. Kids are encouraged to play in sandboxes to learn how to get along with each other. Adults know that when you put kids in a sandbox, some are going to try and take over and bully the other kids. Adults KNOW this going in. The adults then get to TEACH kids about how to care about each other. Clearly, not everyone in EVE learned how to care about and enjoy other people when they were a kid. I get that. The bottom line is that EVE is not a sandbox or anything like one. Concord was billed at the authority. They have stopped protecting high sec and I see devs just whooping it up over Burn Jita and Hulkageddon. But in response to emotional personal bullying, Concord/CCP is no longer securing high sec; no longer being the adult in the sandbox. You can't throw kids in a sandbox without rules and supervision. Eventually you will have kid goons who just like to make the other kids cry. I've downloaded "Sail Simulator 5" to play for the summer. I'll just come back later, much later, to see what's going on. Life is too short. SCREW THE CULT OF ETERNAL SUFFERING!
Coda Grimoire Occupy Love 38	Posted - 2012.06.04 05:34:00 - [23] - Quote "God, is this still a thing? Jesus, that was like 3 months ago? Mittani is still here, and he still has amazing charismatic sway over Goonswarm, and you are still a pubbie whinging over dread pirates wrecking your game." The following is a line from Wiki definition of cyberbullying: "Cyberbullying can be as simple as continuing to send e-mail to someone who has said they want no further contact with the sender, but it may also include threats, sexual remarks, pejorative labels (i.e., hate speech), ganging up on victims by making them the subject of ridicule in forums, and posting false statements as fact aimed at humiliation." Your answer had to include ridiculing. Cyberbullying has been used in more than half the responses in this forum. We are doing it in here and we are cyberbullying to talk about cyberbullying. Personal ridicule did not stop 3 months ago. Cyberbullies can't even have a discussion about ridicule. CCP allows personal ridicule. It's actually illegal in some places in the world. Maybe we need to really understand why lawmakers are getting involved in this. Why is cyberbullying, personal ridicule, so offensive as to become criminal at some point? Personal ridicule has become the reason to play EVE for a bunch of players. Players who are repulsed by that form of play either have to put up with it or leave the game. Personal humiliation is a parasite on the game, not game mechanics. The real irony here is that goons have joined the attacks to avoid becoming a victim of this crap themselves. I guess if you show your buddies you are willing to ridicule others, they won't ridicule you? Very junior high school. Adults tend to stop bullying on the playground and in traditional games. That is not the case in EvE. But it doesn't make it right or fun for the victims. Not sure this is something you just "man up" to and accept. sigh. Since we can't even talk about tihs, maybe we should just seal off high sec for players who just want to settle and build the universe, protect their accomplishments and not cry about anything

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